Women & Coffee: Where are all the Matilda Pergers?

This is such a complex topic and I am glad to see some women weighing in on it. I am personally very thankful for my female coworkers because they often offer a valuable perspective I had not considered.

Which leads me to ask the question: Is the whole “Matilda Perger” thing the wrong question to ask? Should we instead to be looking for ways to elevate and highlight the contributions of people who are not drawn to competition and/or network building, whether they be female or male?

@Reggie_Elliott this is another problem and I admit I am guilty of it. That being said, I do recognise most of the men @Kim_Watson listed who are not all Australian - I doubt this is a geographical issue because I read about and interact with these people online where geography isn’t particularly relevant.

Regardless of my faults, I don’t think the numbers lie. Assuming women are just as interested in coffee and are just as hardworking and talented as men (which they are!), then it stands that if there was no equality problem there should be a comparable number of female WBC champions as male champions.

Obviously there’s a big issue and there’s many personal story’s from women in the industry (and probably a lot more that haven’t been told) that describe it in detail.

@joshuadusk you’re so right, but I think we need to actively focus on women because they’ve had it so hard for so long!

@OliverHollenbach yeah, don’t get me wrong, I definitely think our industry needs to focus on how to be more inclusive of and supportive towards women specifically. And honestly, I think this is as much to the benefit of the industry itself as it is to the women. Coffee needs more female voices. And on that note, I’m gonna shut up until some more ladies weigh in here :slight_smile:

@joshuadusk likewise! :v:

In my experience women are just as likely to be head/lead baristas or site managers (I haven’t counted but it is not noticeably the other way).

I think the competition issue is big here. Winning a globalised recognised competition does wonders for your career and recognition. Women are statistically less likely to compete. Its that simple. The coffee industry is such a young (speciality) industry that I don’t believe the industry as a whole is mysogonistic (certainly individuals but not as a whole). I think there is something in the modesty taught to girls and young women on a society level that makes them less likely to compete - interested to hear any arguments contrary to this.

I do think there is a lack of women in engineering and I think this is a much more industry specific issue, statistically less women are likely to follow a technical or engineering path and young girls that seem interested are much more likely to give it up often because it is not considered a feminine enough industry. I believe that a lot of nations are currently putting a lot of effort into getting girls interested in the STEM industries which will be great. Hopefully in the next generation we will see many more women in the technical side of the industry because of this!!!

It’s great to hear people say that they don’t experience it in their day to day lives. The problem for me is I know that it exists - I’m probably preaching to the choir!

@coffeegirl I agree but I think women are taught this every day of their lives just as men are taught the opposite and it’s by no means unique to the coffee industry.

If you don’t believe me, believe http://doucheydudebaristas.tumblr.com/

For anybody still following this thread; I just came across this article on sprudge titled Why Do Fewer Women Compete—And Win?

Great point about the judges’ total impression score in the WBC!

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http://cargocollective.com/birdsofuv/Hazel-De-Los-Reyes
Ironically, was talking about Hazel yesterday. She won the 2005 Australian Barista Championships. Emily Oak has always been someone I have looked up to in the industry as well. Definitely lots of talented and respected women in the coffee community, not just in Australia, but in the world.

Jets at La Marzocco is another example.

I have also included this article, because, until I saw it, I had never really paid a lot of attention to the number of men vs women in the specialty coffee scene. Sure, some places may have more men than women, but I have never really taken notice.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenger/city/meet-the-women-shaking-up-the-adelaide-coffee-scene/news-story/0895b3700c226da917ce462b13179734

And this is piggybacking off something that is happening in Melbourne.

For all intents and purposes, my primary preference is who is going to provide me with the best coffee experience. This, in my opinion, has nothing to do with being male or female, but is the individual themselves. As great as it is to highlight people in the above article, it would be great, if they all lived up to what the article is about. From personal experience, at least one does not.

Aside from that, Fiefy (has two shops in Adelaide) has been big in the competition scene in SA winning multiple State Barista and Latte Art Championships and representing Thailand at the World Latte Art Championships.

Just a couple of my observations and nothing extensive,
Matt

Just curious as to why the questions given to men and women are different. Shouldn’t both sets of questions (perhaps worded slightly differently) be given to both women and men?

Asking as much of the population all questions would hopefully provide greater output for you. As mentioned, Fiefy has two places in Adelaide and these are female heavy in terms of staff.

Matt

Hi Oliver

Being a barista in rural Indiana, I have noticed most of the barista demographic consists of women; I suspect it’s due to the correlation of women being more frequently interested in the service industry like waitressing and reception work. That being said, most of my female co-workers were not interested in pursuing a career in coffee and thought of it as a serving job to get by. Customers tended to treat us the same as a stereotypical waitress; cat-calls and pet names are a common occurrence. As annoying as it is, this type of chauvinism also helps us get better tips than our male counterparts. Some of the most charismatic male baristas can be dismissed by the customer, who might favor of one of the girls.

As far as opportunities for advancement, there are very few shops with the hierarchy available to accommodate multiple levels of management, so it’s difficult to “move up.” This is one of my reasons for leaving my barista job to get a “day job” in an office. Aside from the lack of opportunities, I do resonate with the other girl who said she has to be extra aggressive to just let the boss know she even wants to do this kind of thing. I had several meetings with my previous boss to outline my goals and ideas for the cafe, only to find they were brushed aside and not taken seriously.

These are obviously just my own experiences, but I know the lack of female competitors and highlighted females in the industry does lead to a general apathy toward those roles in the general female barista population. If we don’t have a fair representation of females who succeed, then we tend to buy into the idea that it’s at the very least difficult, if not impractical, to stick with it in this industry and go for the gold so to speak.

Hustlers,

I’m a female sales manager for a local roaster. It’s my job to be “the face of the company”. I travel around the regional area going into cafes, coffee shops, bakeries, etc, trying to become their coffee provider. I also have a growing demo team running coffee sampling in natural markets around our tri-state area. I’m a Level 1 certified barista. The industry is defintely imbalanced in it’s men to women ratio, however, I believe it’s getting better. Sometimes the inequality fuels my drive to learn more, see more, do more, but many times it’s just annoying.

There’s no doubt that I have to work harder to be taken seriously. Sometimes i think it blows a guys mind when I’m wearing lipstick and talking about coffee processing simeotaneously. Many times, a male prospect or client will move in to hug me and then shake my male counter-part’s hand. That is so bizarrely weird and frustrating to me. I try not to be hyper- aware of the way I’m treated in comparison to my male protégés, but sometimes it’s actually disgusting.

There’s a lot of people working hard to spread awareness and openly acknowledging the gender gap and we need more of that shit. Shout out to Cat & Cloud, Barista Mag, Jen Apodaca, Meister, Matt Perger (I hope you ready this!) and all of the other badasses that are making a difference.

It is 2016 kids, let’s get our shit together.

-Claire-

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Thanks Claire and Lindsey! I’m glad this thread is still getting some
attention.

It’s pretty gross, really. I think the handshake thing says a lot. I know I
would feel uncomfortable hugging a stranger but for some reason men think
it’s appropriate. I bet it’s those same people that defend the idea that
there is an imbalance because the men in those positions 100% deserved it
over their female counterparts…

I understand it’s not just the coffee industry but that’s what we’re all
here to talk about.

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