well from Socraticcoffee instagram i have found that Ditting KR804 have a much much better grind distribution then ek43 for espresso grind size.
My question are
- Does better grind distribution means the coffee taste better?
- What about ditting KR804 ground retention? does it have less ground retention then ek43?
- Have anybody seen ditting KR804 use for espresso for cafe? Since I just see it used for filter and cupping.
Sorry for more question about ditting, since a lot of coffee forum still rarely discuss about this grinder,
The first questions that needs to be asked are:
What is actually the best grind distribution
Is Socratic’s test meaningful and/or accurate? (they use sieves)
I have answers for neither of these…
The Ditting KR804 is a fantastic, powerful, and accurate grinder. We love it for our batch brew, pour overs, french presses, and (gasp!) grinding bags of coffee for customers.
However, without some modification, ours does not have accurate enough increments available to dial in our espresso – the factory default range of the grinder is from 100-900 microns, turkish grind to french press, and seemingly tiny dial adjustments yield drastic results. I’m not sure how well that can be adjusted. The grind setting also does not lock in place as firmly as an espresso grinder would once set. The block design would make it far more difficult for espresso dosing than with the EK43. You would want to remove the vibrator plate. And while tapping the chute knocks out a few grams of retention, there is often another gram or two attached to the chute with static cling.
Is the possibility of more uniform grind going to improve taste after all those obstacles have been overcome? I doubt it. It serves its purpose well, I love the grinder, but there are companies devoted to accurate and convenient espresso grinding and dosing, making the process much, much easier.
Well for me, I really do not know how to describe the graph, maybe Socratic Teams has it explanation from this
but from my point of view is the grinder with the thinnest curve will result the most uniform particles. cmiiw.. ;)
Yes, you’re right @MattPerger , I just read your hustles about EK43, It has pros and cons when the distribution test with laser diffraction particle size analyser compare with sieves, and I think it would be more precise to test it with laser diffraction.
But what I saw from the socratic’s result, and if we suppose that KR804 (or any grinder) has better grind / particles distribution, is it true that it will make the coffee taste better?
What kind of mod do you applied to that grinder @truett?
From your information, could it be said that KR804 is not really suitable for espresso grind, but work well for manual brew?
Is the vibrator plate make it harder for dosing?
Sorry for a lot of question @Truett or maybe newbie question I guess , but I really appreciate your information, actually I’m planning to open a coffee shop in my city, and consider one of those grinder to be set up on my bar but I can’t find really reliable information about both grinder since it is small city and still doesn’t have any specialty coffee shop in here.
My consideration for grinder that I would like to buy are :
- It should deliver the most uniform particle size for wether use in espresso and filter.
- It has low ground retention, since I will use it for some single origin.
- It should have a robust build, I want to invest on one of a lifetime grinder.
So which grinder I should buy?
A little delayed. I posted then left internet access for awhile.
I have not modified a KR804. I assume it’s possible to adjust the dial to work within a different grinding range, not sure by how much.
I would not use KR804 for espresso, because regardless of this singular study showing superior uniform particle size, ease of use is a real concern; for us it works well for everything else. The vibrator plate is intended to distribute grounds in a bag you would be grinding into, but sounds problematic for dosing into a portafilter even with a dosing ring.
Lots of grinders fit well within your considerations but there are a lot more things to think about. Espresso volume? Will you batch brew? Do you want to grind coarsely for french press? Do you want to grind in bulk for cold brew? How many origin options do you want on espresso at a time? Is barista ease of use a concern? For instance unless you intend on having a low volume cafe, I would lean towards using a grinder designed for espresso on an espresso bar. Lots of reasons for that.
For instance, a random thought, for uniform particle size, a recent grinder development has been a cooling system within an espresso grinder. Socratic’s experiment does not take heat into account in the graph above. After thirty minutes of consistent use, a Peak or Mythos grinder may easily end up more consistent than an EK43 or Ditting because of this system. Lots more to think about.
I’ve used both the EK43 and the KR804 in a commercial setting to good results. I didn’t struggle on either to pour decent espresso repeatably even when changing between grind size.
Ultimately we have ended up with the EK on our bench because its slightly quicker to work with (more obvious dial, easier to knock residual grinds out after grinding).
However if I was at a café with an 804 I wouldn’t be pushing for an EK immediately.
One interesting thing the Socratic Coffee tests showed up was this https://www.instagram.com/p/_ISn9ySuHz/ which would hint that the KR804 is some how more inconsistent in the morphology of its particles. This would of course have potential knock on effects for consistency though I haven’t personally done any amount of testing towards the effects of this variance.
Hey @Gregory_Watkinson!!! Can’t believe I found you here! haha
I might add there’s a tonne more about the EK on the internet which is good news when something breaks.
Thx for the info @Truett. From all the information I got, finally(with fingers cross) I make my decision to choose EK43, actually I will use it most for espresso, then some filter brew and cold brew. For the coffee I will try to keep using multiple single origin even for espresso.
thx for the info @Gregory_Watkinson, actually my cafe still on progress, and I still use Macap MX grinder for trial.
is it the inconsistent TDS result maybe from the cause of sieving?